In a nearly three-hour deep dive, Tucker Carlson and historian Darryl Cooper unravel Jeffrey Epstein’s improbable rise from a college dropout to a global fixer entangled in intelligence operations, arms laundering, and mass child exploitation, culminating in his highly suspicious 2019 jail death amid elite cover-ups.

Why it matters: Epstein’s saga transcends mere tabloid fodder; it starkly highlights how unchecked power among billionaires, politicians, and intelligence agencies perpetuates systemic abuse, undermines democratic accountability, and breeds public distrust in institutions that prioritize secrecy over justice for victims.

Driving the news: Carlson’s interview with Cooper, released amid demands to declassify Epstein files, examines verifiable links from Epstein being hired by Donald Barr in the 1970s to his post-conviction flights with Bill Clinton. This has sparked renewed scrutiny while figures like Mark Levin criticize Cooper for giving a platform to “propagandists.”

• Cooper emphasizes Epstein’s role as a “freelance fixer” for CIA/MI6/Mossad-linked ops, backed by court documents and journalistic exposés.
• The duo questions Bill Barr’s oversight of Epstein’s arrest and death, given his father’s role in Epstein’s first job.
• “This is a proxy for holding the powerful accountable,” Cooper tells Carlson, urging White House action on transparency.

Catch up quick: Epstein, born in 1953, mysteriously ascended from teaching math without a degree to managing billions and operating a sex-trafficking operation with Ghislaine Maxwell. His 2008 Florida plea deal—lenient despite 40 victims—was overturned in 2019, leading to federal charges. However, he died in custody before trial, in what was ruled a suicide despite unlikely failures such as malfunctioning cameras. Cooper links this to arms deals in the 1980s and elite networks.

The intrigue: Beyond sex crimes, Epstein’s undocumented hedge fund and ties to figures like Adnan Khashoggi suggest deeper involvement in global black-market weapons and money flows, with no public client lists ever surfacing despite claims of billionaire management.

Between the lines: The interview highlights a “different morality” among elites, where Epstein’s known abuses were ignored post-conviction, as evidenced by continued associations with Clinton (26 flights) and Israeli ex-PM Ehud Barak, pointing to intelligence protections over victim justice.

What they’re saying:

• “Epstein belonged to intelligence and to leave it alone,” former U.S. Attorney Alexander Acosta reportedly told Trump aides, explaining the 2008 sweetheart deal, as revealed by journalist Vicki Ward in Vanity Fair.
• “The thrill of destroying innocence… that’s Satan acting,” Carlson reflects on Epstein’s motives, tying it to elite decadence like Tony Podesta’s art depicting child abuse.

The bottom line: As demands grow for Epstein file releases under a potential second Trump term, this interview underscores that without full disclosure on his intelligence ties and enablers, public faith in power structures will continue to crumble, potentially igniting broader reforms.

Interview Breakdown by Timestamps

0:00 The Strange Origins of Jeffrey Epstein and His Connection to Bill Barr

Cooper outlines Epstein’s early life, born in 1953 in Coney Island, dropping out of Cooper Union after two years, yet hired at 20 to teach math at elite Dalton School by headmaster Donald Barr—father of future AG Bill Barr, who oversaw Epstein’s 2019 arrest and death. Donald Barr, ex-OSS (CIA precursor), wrote “Space Relations,” a 1970s sci-fi novel with themes of child sex slavery and oligarchic abuse, mirroring Epstein’s later crimes; Bill Barr’s CIA intern role during Church/Pike hearings and Iran-Contra cleanup adds layers of coincidence.

Key source: New York Times on Epstein’s Dalton hiring; Wikidata on Donald Barr’s book verifies plot details.

9:05 Epstein’s Money Laundering

Cooper details Epstein’s post-Bear Stearns pivot in the early 1980s, where he specialized in hiding illicit funds for arms dealers like Douglas Leese and Adnan Khashoggi, including premiums from deals like the UK’s Al-Yamamah arms sale to Saudi Arabia (alleged bribery totaling $46 billion for BAE Systems through 2010). Epstein’s “special products” role at Bear Stearns involved tax-advantaged schemes for clients like Edgar Bronfman, leading to his solo firm with Khashoggi as the apparent only client—facilitating untraceable payoffs to avoid scandals like Lockheed’s Japan bribery case.

Key source: for bribery allegations; Wikipedia on Adnan Khashoggi verifies his fixer role.

16:53 Did Epstein Belong to Intelligence?

The discussion centers on former U.S. Attorney Alexander Acosta‘s claim during 2018 Trump vetting that he was told “Epstein belonged to intelligence” to drop the 2008 case, despite 40 corroborating victims. Cooper connects this to Epstein’s OSS-linked hiring by Donald Barr (father of AG Bill Barr) and Pentagon meetings with Leese, suggesting freelance work for CIA/MI6/Mossad—denied as direct employment by ex-Israeli PM Naphtali Bennett but not asset status. This explains the sweetheart deal and lack of media pursuit.

29:02 Epstein’s Connection to Iran-Contra

Epstein laundered overcharges from U.S.-Israel arms sales to Iran (via Khashoggi) to secretly fund Nicaraguan Contras, evading the Boland Amendment’s 477-0 congressional ban on U.S. aid. This post-Church Committee outsourcing made Epstein a key “fixer” in a treason-adjacent scandal under Reagan, where weapons flowed through Israel to prolong the Iran-Iraq war strategically.

Key source: 1987 congressional Iran-Contra reports detail Khashoggi’s role.

45:22 Who Really Was Robert Maxwell?

Robert Maxwell, Ghislaine‘s father, was a Czech-born media tycoon and alleged Mossad superspy who built Pergamon Press into a scientific publishing empire while spying on Eastern Bloc tech for Israel and the West. His 1991 pension fraud scandal (stealing £440 million from Mirror Group employees) and yacht-based operations tied him to Epstein via introductions in the 1980s.

Key source: Gordon Thomas’s book “Gideon’s Spies” (1999) alleges Mossad ties

58:12 Robert Maxwell’s Mysterious Death

Maxwell’s 1991 “accidental” fall from his yacht Lady Ghislaine off the Canary Islands came amid fraud investigations and debts; autopsy suggested heart attack but theories of Mossad murder or suicide persist due to his spy ties and body retrieval inconsistencies. Cooper links this to Epstein inheriting Maxwell’s networks.

Key source: The Guardian’s 1991 coverage on the death; Seymour Hersh’s writings speculate intelligence involvement.

1:02:49 How Epstein Got Connected to the Maxwell Family

Through arms broker Douglas Leese in the 1980s, Epstein met Robert Maxwell, who introduced him to Ghislaine—becoming his trafficking partner post-Maxwell’s death, using socialite access for victim recruitment and elite blackmail ops.

Key source: Ghislaine Maxwell’s 2022 trial court documents reference the family connections; flight logs unsealed in 2023.

1:06:20 How Epstein Intimidated and Threatened Journalists Who Dared to Ask Questions

Epstein deployed private investigators and direct threats against reporters like Vicki Ward (who reported cat heads left as warnings) and Graydon Carter, suppressing stories on his abuses and finances through harassment and smear campaigns.

Key source: Vicki Ward’s 2019 Vanity Fair piece details threats.

1:12:53 How Epstein Got Rich and His Strange Relationship With Les Wexner

Epstein gained power of attorney over Les Wexner’s $1+ billion fortune in the 1990s, managing assets without clear records of earnings; their “strange” bond included Epstein buying Wexner’s NYC mansion cheaply, possibly tied to money laundering or blackmail.

Key source: ABC News on power of attorney;

1:25:06 Is There Any Documented Financial Records of Epstein’s Supposed Hedge Fund?

No verifiable records exist for Epstein’s J. Epstein & Co. hedge fund; Towers Financial (his prior venture) was a Ponzi scheme run by Steven Hoffenberg, who claimed Epstein orchestrated it but escaped charges.

1:30:19 How Epstein Used Victoria’s Secret to Scout His Victims

As Wexner’s advisor, Epstein posed as a Victoria’s Secret recruiter to lure young models, abusing them under the guise of career opportunities—part of a broader trafficking operation.

Key source: Victim accounts in court testimonies.

1:35:04 Epstein and Ghislaine Maxwell’s Sex Crimes in Palm Beach

In the early 2000s, Epstein and Maxwell ran a “pyramid scheme” of abuse at his Palm Beach mansion, paying teens $200-300 for massages that escalated to assaults, with 40+ victims identified in the 2005 probe.

Key source: Miami Herald’s “Perversion of Justice” series (2018).

1:46:46 Why Epstein Escaped to Israel

Post-2008 conviction, Epstein fled scrutiny by leveraging ties to Israel, including funding Ehud Barak’s tech firm and frequent visits—possibly evading U.S. oversight via intelligence protections.

Key source: Daily Beast 2019 reports on Barak connections.

1:54:40 The Lolita Express, Satanic Art, and Tony Podesta

Epstein’s private jet (Lolita Express) transported elites and victims; Cooper links this to “satanic” art in Tony Podesta’s collection (e.g., Biljana Djurdjevic‘s dead children paintings) and Marina Abramović‘s spirit cooking dinners, normalizing depravity among D.C. insiders.

Key source: Unsealed flight logs; Washington Life Magazine 2004 feature on Podesta art; Wikileaks Podesta emails on spirit cooking; Marina Abramovic to Publish a Memoir in 2016.

2:15:22 The True Definition of Evil

Carlson and Cooper define Epstein’s pathology as the “thrill of destroying innocence,” equating it to satanic power-seeking like historical child sacrifice, reflected in elite tolerance of abuses (e.g., U.S. forces ignoring Afghan bacha bazi).

Key source: Cultural parallels in Nick Bryant’s “The Franklin Scandal”; TIME on bacha bazi.

2:26:16 Did Epstein Kill Himself?

Epstein’s 2019 MCC death—cameras malfunctioned, guards asleep, logs missing—is deemed implausible; lawyers say he expected bail, and assault by cellmate Nicholas Tartaglione preceded it. Bill Barr prematurely ruled suicide.

Key source: DOJ OIG report (2023); Tucker Carlson interviews Mark Epstein .

2:35:56 Cooper’s Message to the White House

Cooper urges declassification of Epstein files as a litmus test for accountability, arguing child rape’s severity demands transparency over “national security” excuses, or elites prove irredeemable.

2:40:46 Why Is Mark Levin Afraid of Darryl Cooper?

Levin’s attacks (calling Cooper a “demagogue” on Fox) stem from fears that Epstein probes expose Israel-intel ties, though Cooper views him as a multi-agency freelancer; Levin prioritizes loyalty over truth-seeking.