Topline
Former White House counsel Kathy Ruemmler is expected to face questions from the House Oversight Committee on Tuesday about her relationship with Jeffrey Epstein, as lawmakers seek to put the prominent attorney on the record amid documents indicating she maintained a close friendship with the disgraced financier until his 2019 arrest—an characterization she has disputed.
Kathy Ruemmler appears on “Meet the Press” in Washington, D.C., on June 29, 2014.
NBCU Photo Bank/NBCUniversal via Getty Images
Key Facts
Ruemmler is slated to speak with committee investigators behind closed doors Wednesday as part of the House panel’s continuing probe into Epstein, with a transcript of the interview likely to be made public in the days that follow.
A former White House counsel under President Barack Obama, Ruemmler later moved into private practice and met Epstein around 2014. Earlier this year, she stepped down as Goldman Sachs’ top lawyer following renewed scrutiny of her ties to him.
Records contained in the Epstein files suggest the pair had a familiar and frequent rapport. Epstein regularly communicated with Ruemmler and sent her costly gifts, including luxury spa visits, an Apple Watch, an Hermès bag and $10,000 in Bergdorf Goodman gift cards. In some messages, Ruemmler used affectionate language, referring to Epstein as “Uncle Jeffrey” and signing certain emails with “xoxo.”
The communications appear to have continued until Epstein’s 2019 arrest. Documents in the Epstein files show Ruemmler assisted him as he sought to repair his public image amid reporting about his alleged abuse, while handwritten notes indicate Epstein called her directly after he was taken into custody.
Ruemmler has denied wrongdoing and has said she had no knowledge of Epstein’s alleged abuse. She has also pushed back on suggestions that their relationship was as close as the messages may appear. Her spokeswoman, Jennifer Connelly, has said Ruemmler “knew Epstein when she was a criminal defense attorney and shared a client with him” and “was friendly with him in that context.”
What Will Lawmakers Ask Ruemmler?
Rep. Raja Krishnamoorthy, D-Ill., told Reuters ahead of Tuesday’s hearing that lawmakers must use the interview to “pull back the curtain on how Jeffrey Epstein built and maintained wealth, power, and influence while operating one of the most notorious sex trafficking operations in modern history,” also noting how the Epstein files “revealed a far more extensive relationship between Ms. Ruemmler and Epstein than was previously understood.” Ruemmler had a number of exchanges with Epstein documented in the government’s files that have raised scrutiny and could come up on Tuesday, such as a 2014 exchange in which Ruemmler said, “Most girls don’t have to deal with this crap” when discussing a job issue. “Girl=??” Epstein responded. “Careful I will renew an old habit.”
What Has Ruemmler Said About Her Relationship With Epstein?
Ruemmler has said she “regret[s] ever knowing Jeffrey Epstein” and has referred to the late financier as a “monster” in the wake of his death, with spokesperson Connelly telling The Miami Herald, “Ms. Ruemmler has deep sympathy for those harmed by Epstein and if she knew then what she knows now, she never would have dealt with him at all.” In a recent interview with attorney Ankush Khardori for the The New York Times—which has been criticized for being too sympathetic to the attorney—Ruemmler defended her seemingly close relationship with Epstein as being in line with how lawyers operate with wealthy individuals. Ruemmler has received expensive gifts from other clients like she did with Epstein, she claimed, and defended her friendly tone with him in emails as being what’s necessary for a woman in the industry who’s trying to be taken seriously. As “the only woman in the room oftentimes,” Ruemmler told Khardori, “you have to figure out how to get people to listen to you.” She also defended specific conversations with Epstein, alleging that when Epstein referred to his “old habit,” she assumed he was talking about referring to adult women as girls. “Hindsight bias has caused many people to assume that given everything we know now, everyone who dealt with Epstein must have known all of that then,” Ruemmler said. “That assumption is wrong.” She and Connelly have also pushed back on a number of specific points of interest in her relationship with Epstein, such as noting her call with Epstein after his arrest was “brief” and didn’t result in Ruemmler taking any specific actions to help him, and denied comments by Epstein that suggested Ruemmler did personal legal work for the financier. “Ms. Ruemmler had no control over how Epstein characterized her or their interactions,” Connelly told CNN. “She was not his defender. She never advocated on his behalf with any third party – not the press, not a court, not a government official.”
Contra
While Ruemmler has repeatedly claimed her relationship with Epstein was strictly professional, there are also a number of comments in the Epstein files that suggest Ruemmler and Epstein had more of a personal friendship than she has claimed more recently. Epstein described Ruemmler at one point as his “great defender,” for instance, while Ruemmler told Epstein in 2015 she was “thinking of you and am so very grateful for our friendship.”
Tangent
Ruemmler’s interview with Congress on Tuesday comes shortly after the Wall Street Journal reported her transition away from Goldman Sachs has become a point of contention for those hoping to replace her as the company’s top lawyer. Ruemmler formally stepped down from her role at Goldman in February, saying it was in the bank’s best interest for her to step aside amid the media scrutiny she’s faced over Epstein. The attorney has stayed on at the firm as an advisor and to help find her successor, which the Journal reports has raised “concern” among some employees at the bank and potentially dissuaded potential applicants, because “it is unclear how long Ruemmler will stay on and in what capacity.” Goldman Sachs has defended Ruemmler’s continued presence at the bank, with spokesperson Tony Fratto telling the Journal, “The leadership and the Board appreciate her willingness to stay and help as she has been an excellent General Counsel.”
Further Reading
She Was One of Obama’s Top Lawyers. How Did She Get Tangled Up With Epstein? (The New York Times)
Gifts and soup from ‘Uncle Jeffrey’: The Epstein ties that ended Kathy Ruemmler’s run at Goldman (Associated Press)
Birthday wishes, island plans and ‘xoxo’ sign-offs: Inside a former Obama WH counsel’s ties to Epstein (CNN)
